Curse

Celes Tial · May 17, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

I always preferred the old elite capture system. Yes, sometimes it took awhile until the boss used the elite, but at least groups generally understood the need to not kill the boss until everyone had their skill captured. Now we get griefed by the cutscenes ending the mission, leaving us without a chance to capture the skill. In some cases internal fights arise:

Kill the assassin boss first I need to CAP! Please I have tried this 3 times
NO kill the mesmer boss I need to cap too, I've done this 7 times stfu!

Why cant we have a 15 second delay after the last boss dies, so we dont have to repeat the same mission X times until finally a small mob is left alive until the boss is dead? (If henchies or NPCs dont spoil the groups efforts by killing the mob). It sucks even more for monks or ritualists who have the choice of not capping the skill or risking a group wipe, or being out of range of wherever the boss died.This is not fun, it makes no sense, and a fix cant be that hard to implement.

-A very frustrated monk.

Renegade ++RIP++ · May 17, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

signed

Cjlr · May 17, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

/signed

Tarun · May 17, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

/signed

=HT=Ingram · May 17, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

/signed

It also used to be that if you started the cap process before the cutscene, that when you spawned in town the capture menu was still up. like walking away from the storage agent with the window open...

This is not the case anymore for whatever reason, so capping off the last boss in a mission is sometimes Very very difficult... It would be nice to have a short reprieve for that all important cap or chest open before the cutscene pulls you out of the area. Maybe a leader alert to Proceed to Next Outpost at end mission rather then just automatically going...

bilateralrope · May 17, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Currently all the elites that can be capped from bosses at the end of a mission can also be capped elsewhere. So I won't sign this untill you show me at least one elite skill that can only be capped at the end of a mission in that campaign.

Lets take barrage as an example since I know a lot of people spend a lot of effort capping it in iron mines. From here
Markis - Iron Mines of Moladune - Human < The problematic cap
Snyk The Hundred Tongue - Abaddon's Mouth - Wurm < Another cap location, this time not at the end of a mission though it is hard to get to
Chkkr Thousand Tail - Drazach Thicket - Unknown <factions cap, not relevant to example
Aurora - Boreas Seabed - Human <factions cap, not relevant to example

If it weren't for the Abaddon's Mouth cap of barrage, barrage would be sufficent example for me to support this idea.

If you want to cap a boss at the end of a mission, and it can be obtained elsewhere, you made the task difficult for yourself. Currently I don't see a problem. Some elites are meant to be harder to cap than others, like all the post THK prophesis elites.

Celes Tial · May 17, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Well, some elites are split into two caps - one on each faction side. Please tell me where to get Preservation on the Kurzick side other than that bloody annoying Eternal Grove mission.

With factions still being so new, elite location lists are work in progress, and it is extremely annoying to miss the same elite 5 times in a mission and then to not know where else to find it.

sledgeunderhill · May 17, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Bilateral, if you remember, Anet changed the jade spawn order to fix the Markis problem way back when. Markis was only a problem for a little while.

dargon · May 17, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celes Tial

Well, some elites are split into two caps - one on each faction side. Please tell me where to get Preservation on the Kurzick side other than that bloody annoying Eternal Grove mission.

At the moment, the only 2 known locations are

Flower Spiritgarden - The Eternal Grove - Warden
Soulwhisper - Gyala Hatchery - Elder Guardian

Celes Tial · May 17, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I already read about the Hatchery. I'm not going to grind through Luxon quests just for one elite, that would be worse than repeating the Eternal Grove another 5 times.

Griev · May 17, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

/Signed, the system is dumb.

draxynnic · May 18, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

/signed

(Note possible spoilers below, although I'm doing my best to stay general)

The really annoying one at the moment, and this is partially in response to bilateralrope's challenge, are the bosses at the end of Sunjiang District. This isn't as bad as it could be because the mission is henchable (so you can go in with henches and make sure the boss you want goes down first without competing with other players wanting a different cap), but on the other hand it does have the problem that only a fraction of a possible eight spawn, so you might have to repeat a few times to get the boss you want to spawn.

Some of the bosses there have elites that can be found elsewhere - the warrior has an elite from Prophecies, the monk elite can be capped in an earlier mission, and the assassin and ritualist elites can be found deep in the Luxon and Kurzick territories respectively (although if you really want the last two rather than just collecting them for completeness, you probably will want to repeat the mission until you get them). To date, however, if the Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger and Necromancer elites can be acquired elsewhere, their location has yet to be discovered and revealed to the public.

However, I do note in this mission, there's normally a bunch of a regular mobs sitting behind a gate - so in this case it could be fixed by having the gates open and having you fight the mob before the mission ends. Somewhat anticlimatic, yes, but it would give a chance to capture skills before the cutscene rolls, much like the Jades do in Iron Mines.

(Incidentally, I do prefer the current system - except at the end of a mission, it does make things easier, especially if the cap you want is something particularly fast to cast and the boss has a tendency to quickly follow it with something else... there just needs to be something to give you a chance after a mission ends.)

k3nn3tH123 · May 18, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

/signed

bam23 · May 18, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Currently all the elites that can be capped from bosses at the end of a mission can also be capped elsewhere. So I won't sign this untill you show me at least one elite skill that can only be capped at the end of a mission in that campaign.

Lets take barrage as an example since I know a lot of people spend a lot of effort capping it in iron mines. From here
Markis - Iron Mines of Moladune - Human < The problematic cap
Snyk The Hundred Tongue - Abaddon's Mouth - Wurm < Another cap location, this time not at the end of a mission though it is hard to get to
Chkkr Thousand Tail - Drazach Thicket - Unknown <factions cap, not relevant to example
Aurora - Boreas Seabed - Human <factions cap, not relevant to example

Hundred Blades can only be capped from Undead Rurik or Warrior's Construct at the end of Sunjiang District (there is a chance he doesn't spawn).

Do I win a cookie? O_O

Rogmar · May 18, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bam23

Hundred Blades can only be capped from Undead Rurik or Warrior's Construct at the end of Sunjiang District (there is a chance he doesn't spawn).

Do I win a cookie? O_O

Well Rurik isn't the end of the mission and almost every Factions player has Prophecies (I think)

monty123 · May 18, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griev

/Signed, the system is dumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

signed

/signed

bam23 · May 18, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

Well Rurik isn't the end of the mission and almost every Factions player has Prophecies (I think)

I don't see where you're going with the Factions players having prophecies thing but Rurik does take a very long time to get to, so he is equally a pain in the butt whether he is in the end or not :P

zerowingcats · May 18, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

/signed

Arkantos · May 18, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

/signed

Do I need explanation why?

draxynnic · May 18, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by bam23

I don't see where you're going with the Factions players having prophecies thing but Rurik does take a very long time to get to, so he is equally a pain in the butt whether he is in the end or not :P

The point is that the final cutscene doesn't roll after he dies - although a cutscene does kick in, it doesn't finish the mission and you can easily go back and make the cap without requiring any coordination on the part of the other players apart from maybe a little patience. Yes, you need to do the mission to get it - but you'll only need to do the mission once as long as you have the cap - you'll never have a run where you don't get a chance to cap.

For caps such as my example of the Sunjiang District, however, the mission ends as soon as the final boss in the group is dead. Hence, in order to get the cap you want, you need to make sure the boss you want is one of the first to go down, and that the last doesn't die until you've finished - which requires either bringing henchmen and targetting the boss you want early (and hope they don't manage to kill the others before you've finished, although that's unlikely), or if you have a human group, arranging a kill order with the other players before you go in. And even then... if all of the ones that spawn are wanted by someone, then someone's going to miss out, however well coordinated you are. (And the fact that the one you want might not spawn at all is another complication, but on the other hand do you really want to fight eight bosses at once?)

So, comparing the two: For Rurik, I only needed to do Hell's Precipice once. Yes, it's a long mission, and it's the last mission in the game so it's 'hard to get to' in that way, but on the other hand, you're going to go through the mission at least once for the story anyway, right? So there's no extra effort involved unless you simply didn't have a spare capsig the first time around.

For a skill I wanted to cap out of Sunjiang, however - it took four tries. First try I went with other players - the boss was there, and dropped third, but the fourth boss died while I was still halfway through trying to cap. After that I went with henchies - stuffed up in one attempt and didn't get to the end, and on another attempt I got there but the boss I wanted didn't spawn (can't remember the order). Fourth time I got the boss. Since I got the Master's Reward the first time around, that's three times I went into the mission that I wouldn't have had to if there was the delay in the mission ending that the thread starter suggested.

I'm dreading trying to make the two caps from the mission I need with my Me/E...